Melinda French Gates Reveals Whether She’s Forgiven Ex-Husband Bill Gates amid Newly Released Epstein Emails

Melinda French Gates knows a thing or two about forgiveness — and how long it can take to get there once trust has been broken. 

In a new episode of NPR’s Wild Card podcast, which first made waves earlier this week but aired in full on Thursday, Feb. 5, the billionaire philanthropist fielded a number of questions about her ex-husband, Bill Gates.

In addition to being asked to react to newly released emails from sex offender Jeffrey Epstein that mentioned Bill, Melinda, 61, expounded on the twin topics of trust and forgiveness. 

At one point in the interview, after being asked by host Rachel Martin about what growing older has taught her about love, Melinda spoke about the importance of “absolute trust” in all of her relationships — and how without out, it’s impossible to keep growing, especially when people inevitably “make mistakes.” 

“Did it take you more than a minute to learn to trust again because that had been broken in your— ” Martin began, as Melinda asked, “marriage?” 

“Of course,” Melinda replied, going on to admit that she “thought it might never happen for me again.” 

“I trusted myself though,” she continued. “But I have learned that, that with the right person, you can, and it’s baby steps at first, and you build on that and you see it and you test it, and then you can find it.” 

Since her divorce, Melinda has been linked to Philip Vaughn since 2024 — and the pair made their red carpet debut just last year.

Asked on NPR if she was “good at forgiveness,” Melinda replied, “Yes, I think I am.” 

“But I’ve learned that forgiveness can take a long time and you can’t rush it,” she said. 

Melinda, who spoke broadly about forgiveness in the context of friendship, said that it takes time to “process” the ways “we hurt one another” and figure out how to move forward.  

“But ultimately, I really seek forgiveness with everybody because if you can’t eventually forgive somebody, then you hurt yourself, I think,” she added. “I forgive them, but I don’t need to be in touch with them anymore … but if I can forgive what happened and also try a little bit and see their side of it, then I can move on.” 

As for whether she’s forgiven Bill, Melinda replied, “I think I’m gonna keep that one to myself.” 

However, she went on to call it a “work in progress” before ultimately saying, “I think I’m getting there.” 

Melinda and Bill announced their divorce in 2021 after 27 years of marriage. In a cover story with PEOPLE last year, ahead of the release of her memoir, The Next Day, Melinda opened up about the decision to split, saying, “You have to stay true to yourself always.” 

In her book, Melinda wrote about mounting turmoil in her relationship with Bill by 2019 and 2020, alluding to Bill’s infidelity and his links to Epstein.

Speaking with NPR, Melinda said that the latest allegations about her ex and Epstein, in Epstein’s emails — which a spokesperson for Bill called “absolutely absurd and completely false” and that Bill denounced himself in a separate interview — brought her “unbelievable sadness.”

“I think we’re having a reckoning as a society, right? No girl, no girl should ever be put in the situation that they were put in by Epstein and whatever was going on with all of the various people around him,” she also said.

“So for me, it’s personally hard whenever those details come up, right, because [it] brings back memories of some very, very painful times in my marriage,” she continued. “But I have moved on from that.”

Never miss a story — sign up for PEOPLE’s free daily newsletter to stay up-to-date on the best of what PEOPLE has to offer, from celebrity news to compelling human interest stories.

Melinda went on to say that “whatever questions remain there of what I don’t — can’t even begin to know all of it — those questions are for those people and for even my ex-husband. They need to answer to those things, not me.”

She added, “I am so happy to be away from all the muck that was there.”